10 tips for beginner raiders – revamp

Moved to Work in Progress ModeWe are recently working on improving the quality of content here on WoW-Pro.com, both by limiting low ranked guides and by moving out of date guides into archives. For more information, see [url=https://www.wow-pro.com/node/3016]the full news post detailing this process[/url].

This guide needs an update to make sure it is current with patch 4.0. However it still has enough useful information that it will be left in it’s proper section as-is.

The class section in particular is outdated, misleading, and vague. For example, Blizzard is being very careful to balance all tanking classes equally, yet this guide implies DKs are bad tanks and Warriors are somehow superior. Also, combat is essentially equal to assassination for rogue specs. Basically, the information supplied is very inaccurate and needs to be updated so new raiders aren’t confused by it.

Because of this, I’ll be moving this to work in progress mode for now.

If you improve your guide to address these issues, you are welcome to change it to Finished mode again. If you have any questions about this process, feel free to comment here.

DK Blood SpecGreetings, good Job with this guide. I’m a newbee for any instance raid 10/25. 🙁 I’m looking at your recommendations even with my epic armor fillup with gems and enchants still short of your ratings as a DPS.This a stat of my toon:
Blood Spec
AP- 3119
Crit% – 18.37
Hit Rating-263

WowArmory url: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eonar&cn=Tobimenner

I need to know it is enought and/or what I need to know or search for to be a better DPS.

Thz

ps. sorry my bad english 🙁

for some weird reason i canfor some weird reason i can never see a full spec, i can only up to like level 65

Hunter SpecWith the changes in 3.1 (mainly the addition of Black Arrow and the corresponding changes to some of the lower tree talents like Lock and Load and Trap Mastery), here is the base spec for a Survival Hunter looking to raid:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#cZ0eVooZt0ci0cIhehu0su:0NAMz

There are 5 points left open for customization (I prefer to put them into Efficiency to enable me to stay out of Aspect of the Viper longer). You can also finish out Master Tactician as a good alternative, or (if you are not hit capped yet) Focused Aim.

Epic fail, I mean 540Epic fail, I mean 540 defence skill level. 1500 DPS in a HC dungeon could very well mean 2000 in a 10 man raid. And that’s okay for a DPS going through whole naxx.

Exactly 689 rating (Well,Exactly 689 rating 😀 (Well, not exactly, but defense skill is integer so 689 is the lowest possible value to get 540 def [b]skill[/b])

540 defense rating is far to540 defense rating is far to low. You need 540 defense skill to be uncruttable by bosses (which is 690 defense rating if i remember right). With 1500 dps you cant kill Loatheb, Patchwerk, Thaddius, it might not even be enough for the Gargoyles. And as a DPS, AP, crit or hit doesn’t matter, it’s the dps that they can put out, for example choose a 2500 AP rogue with 2K dps over a 3000 AP rogue with 1800 dps.

Just list both… TheJust list both… The difference is minimal.

Are you sure you’re rightAre you sure you’re right with spending all that talent points to get [b]Impale[/b]? Yes [b]Improved Defensive Stance[/b] Is fantastic, I will go for a revamp of the talent spec.
Thanks For adding anyway :)!

I am, I’m just slow as hellI am, I’m just slow as hell 🙂 .
I’m not the big hunter expert so I’m a little confused 😕
Whats the best spec? your or Deeas?

many more do so.Not just rogues come unprepared.
Same can be sayd about many classes.

But for a raid, i would not quickly take a rogue anymore.
In old content, where cc meant something they where nice.
Blind, stun etcetera. Nowadays, a rogue is much like a succubus.
Some decent tricks, but nothing great…. And a bit on the sqishy side.

Not to mention they areNot to mention they are melee, which is not good on several fights, including Kel’Thuzad!

That said, some of their abilities are really useful, such as their anti-enrage on Gluth.

Unfortunately, you also see a lot of PVP nuttheads in the rogue class, who want to try raiding but don’t know what they’re doing. Not that that’s a bad thing, but, well, if they don’t try to educate themselves first it is.

True, but it’s minimal withTrue, but it’s minimal with the spec I posted… Still, the author should atleast respond :

Sorry rogues…Rogue
Rogues deal out decent DPS as single target. You got no buffs but are still welcome in raids. They go best as assissination with 2 daggers.

They deal “decent DPS” and “no buffs” You might as well say they are fillers when nobody else wants to come!

HuntersThe current best DPS build for hunters is [url=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cxoZ0eVoZe00i0cIhxdAhck]6/14/51[/url] (note that the point in hunting party can be moved to expose weakness if you already have a replenishment provider in your raid). Also, best DPS pet is the raptor.

Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t42519-best_possible_dps_shandaras_wotlk_spreadsheet/

Arcane spec is pretty muchArcane spec is pretty much preferred for mages. It allows them to not worry about having too much hit, and allows them to drop that war prisoner trinket for something like Embrace of the Spider. Either way, decently geared Arcane Mages pull 4k DPS in 25mans. Almost all mages in my guild have switch from ff to arcane. heres a common build.

Note: This is a tentative build. Some talents that give spirit or resistance are switched out to the certain mages liking.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?tal=23000513310033015032310250532103000000000000000000000000002030230010000000000000000000

Couple pointsFirst i’d like to say great job at attempting this. It is always tough to summarize raid composition and strengths and weaknesses of each class. No matter how long you’ve played the classes change so dramatically with each expansion and even patches its hard to keep abreast of everything so I commend you for trying.

Couple points of Shamans. Heroism/Bloodlust increases cast speed of everyone by 30%. Not damage done. Big difference. Also, heroism is more beneficial to some classes than others. Most melee classes for instance receive much more of a buff from it than the largely instant cast dependent survival hunter. Stormstrike does not reduce the armor on the target, it merely increases the damage done to the target for the next 2, or 4 with talents, nature spells. Enhancement shaman brings totems specialized for DPS and utility thanks to instant cast heals every few seconds if needed in a pinch. Not sure if I agree on the powerful but slow analogy to Resto but i’ll leave it alone 🙂 Also Saph is much more of a Druid fight, the best example of a Shammy fight in WoTLK so far would be Malygos, especially in phase 2.

Also, for DPS looking to raid, probably the most important stat is your various hit caps. It varies by class and race what number you need. For melee expertise is also very important until capped. Should be the #1 goal of any DPS when it comes to gems/enchants and gear to hit your goals for these numbers ASAP. Doesn’t mean other things aren’t important but not as important often times. Know what the weights are for each of your stats by researching and keep a spreadsheet to see the relevant values of each piece of gear.

good bethehe, yeah summons, even inside of raids / dungeons.
Politely ask a warlock if he has shards and is willing to resummon, hearth out to repair, and howler when ready to get summoned to where you where.
( or summon replacement party members )

And candy :
a healthstone, that works the same as a potion, but has a seperate timer.
So you can pop 2 “healthpots” in 1 fight. We can summon those per shard, or a candy jar, aka 10 for the price of 1.

Thanks for giving locks some love JiJambi 😉

Warrior Prot SpecI personally find your spec for the Warrior Prot tree somewhat, not to my taste lol can’t think how else to put it.

I prefer the [url=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LAM00bZhhZVItrx0zibIzsGo]Impale build[/url].

This is what I’m going to use at 80.

Here are the main differences between your spec and this one:

[b]Prot Tree:[/b]

[b]Puncture[/b] – With the changes that 3.0 brought to [i]Sunder Armor[/i] and [i]Devastate[/i] they are no longer one of the main sources of your tps, and should only really be used when you have a GCD going to waste. It is obviously good for the DPS to have the extra armor reduction and yes it does give you more tps with a fully stacked debuff on the target, but with these abilities becoming more redundant, I personally don’t think that 3 points in this talent is justified. Cost 3 less rage? IMO not worth it at all.
[list]Yes I know 3.1 brings a massive boost to the debuff applied, but I still don’t think 3 points justifies these abilities costing 3 less rage.[/list]

[b]Vigilance[/b] – Nothing special imo. Only spec into this if your in a regular raid group and you find your, or a particular, DPS getting to over-cocky and getting too close to your threat level for comfort.

[b]Improved Defensive Stance[/b] – I think this is very worth it. 6% less spell damage? [i]Enrage[/i] on any Block, Dodge, or Parry? This is a very good talent imo, I even use it in my leveling spec and love it’s use.

[b]Fury Tree:[/b]

Only talent worthy of mention imo is [b]Armored to the Teeth[/b], but I wouldn’t spec into this talent until level 70+ or you won’t really notice the difference. Obviously it scales with gear and just gets better the futher you go. Include this in ANY Warrior build (as you also have).

The only other talent here worth anything is [b]Cruelty[/b]. But this isn’t the best talent to make sure you max out for a Tank. This to me is the talent where you take points from if you need them elsewhere ([b]Vigilance[/b] for example). It is a good talent, but not strong enough to make it a priority imo. Talent for leftover points at the end.

[b]Arms Tree:[/b]

[b]Improved Heroic Strike/ Iron Will[/b] – Filler talent only, use it to get access to [b]Impale[/b]. If you don’t feel wasting 3 points on reducing [i]Heroic Strike’s[/i] rage cost by 3, spec into [b]Iron Will[/b] instead.

[b]Improved Charge[/b] – Filler talent for getting to Impale, but a good one. With [b]Warbringer[/b] from the Prot tree, this provides a very useful supply of rage at the start of a fight. Important filler talent.

[b]Impale[/b] – Now the good bit. +20% Critical Strike Damage bonus? More tps! Some people might argue that this isn’t worth it, but you will see it’s benefits. Alot.

[b][i]Optional[/i] – Deep Wounds[/b] – This is an optional talent, some people like it, others don’t. I’m personally undecided with it. It gives a free [i]Bleed[/i] debuff on the target after a Crit, giving more tps again. Needs a slow, high damage weapon to make full use of it though. Take either this or [b]Cruelty[/b] as your end filler talent, down to personal preference.

-Skumball

Not to mention a summon andNot to mention a summon and candy! Warlocks = <3 in my book.

About warlocksThey bring some added value to the raid. Wich can be quite nice.
Curse of weakness ( being buffed )
Is a curse on target that will reduce attack power and after 3.1 also reduce armor of target.
Curse of tongues, slow down casting, tough most bosses are immune to this.
Curse of elements, increase all elemental damage done to a target.
( especially usefull with a few elemental dpssers, mages, shadowpriest etcetera )
and some extra curses and debuffs wich help damage dealing and protecting raiders.
( only 1 curse at a time per target per lock tough )

Imp and fellhunter pet bonus to the raid. Imp : gives fire resistance and a small fire shield, when target gets hit, it will do some dded fire damage. Great to help tank in fire fights. Also some extra health for all party members.
Fellhunter, gives extra 48 intel and 64 spirit.

and a blueberry that can off tank nicely 🙂

SuggestionsQuickly, the DK tank spec you have linked is sub-par at best. No Epidemic? No Outbreak/Vicious Strikes/Dirge? Also, if you are going deep unholy you should probably pick up unholy blight. AMZ is a waste of talent points unless you are doing 3 drake Sartharion. You could produce far more competitive TPS as frost rather than Unholy. I will post a build later.

Also, Frost Aura is completely and utterly useless as it doesn’t stack with MoTW. Frigid Deathplate is pretty much a must for most tanks.

Sounds interesting,if youSounds interesting,if you know much about mages, are you then able to add a spec?

If you are please leave feedback

No its not better but goodNo its not better but good enough.
1. You dont have Frost Aura, makes high spell absording to the whole party, thats a must.
2. The real tank musts are eaither 3% advoince in frost or 5% magic reducion (Ofcause also dodge in Unholy, Parry in Blood and armor in Frost).
3. Its not a low level or leveling spec I’m posting its a high level to max your DPS/healing/tank.

Okay, I see I’m wrong withOkay, I see I’m wrong with the Healbot thingy, will add it now for sure 😉 .

Hello, Maybe you can add[s]Double post, will make a more useful post of this one later[/s]

Okay, I’ll take the hunter class;

First of all, [url=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=coZ0eVbohZe00i0cIhxdAhck]this is the best dps spec[/url] available at the moment, not the one you linked. With this spec, you’ll want to get haste capped (which is 15.94%), and Hit capped (which is what every class needs, for raiding (FYI it’s 263 or 8% [b]without Focused Aim[/b])).

[b]Attributes:[/b] Hit > Agility > AP > Intellect > Haste > Crit (Keep in mind you still want to reach the Caps/soft caps with the attributes)

[b]Glyphs:[/b] Steady, Serpent Sting, AotH

[b]Gemming:[/b] Agility.

[b]Pet:[/b] Raptor/Cat. Raptor is a bit better, though.

EDIT: [b]Rotation:[/b] Explosive > Aimed > Steady. While keeping up Serpent Sting and Hunter’s Mark.

***I got my information [url=http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=74057]from this post[/url] on Wowhead.

Hello,

Maybe you can addHello,

Maybe you can add links to the various guide we have on this site, like [url=https://wow-pro.com/class_guides/sapys_guide_resto_shaman_healing]Sapy’s Guide to Resto Shaman Healing[/url], this would make the site even more useful. The talent links in this guide are also a bit… meh, it just doesn’t feel right with no links to the guides here.

Imo.

~Trollvink

Oh, thanks, I thought it wasOh, thanks, I thought it was something like that 😉

I guess some buff food will hit cap me :jawdrop:

just to be helpful: Hunterjust to be helpful: Hunter hitcap = 263 if you don’t take Focused Aim

Hi, great tips. You couldHi, great tips. You could add (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZGxxthebohoVosx0g) for a death knight tanking spec. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that this is the regular, especially for lower gear levels.

Oh definitely, hit rating isOh definitely, hit rating is vastly different for different classes. I mean, you have casters, hunters, main/two hand users, and duel wielders. Each of these have a different cap. I’m just saying that someone with zero hit (and yes a person like this tried to join my naxx group yesterday actually) will not be able to do diddly squat DPS. People don’t always have to be capped and the amount of hit needed is different for each class – but I think it’s worth saying that some hit is probably needed 😉

Eh, for the healbot thing, IEh, for the healbot thing, I must say as a healer I think you are completely incorrect. Of all the healers I know only *one* does it manually. I use healbot, and have also used grid + clique. All other healers I know use healbot. So, I really must disagree with you on this one and still urge you to add it. Especially because this guide is focusing on beginner raiders, and for a healer trying to heal 25 people, it makes things much less stressful! You can always note it here as an option but also say that some prefer to use the default UI because it’s more of a challenge 😉

EDIT: Just wanted to say I concede the point on the 3 healers thing – for a beginning naxx group, 3 would probably make things easier 🙂

Mage can also have arcaneMage can also have arcane spec and its a way better now in some situations.

To add to what you saidTo add to what you said about gear, it is to my understanding that each class has a different hit rating cap. I know that the hunter hit cap w/o a talent (forgot the name) is about 280. Now I’m only at about 230 hit rating, yet I’m able to pull top damage/dps.
To sum up this paragraph, it should be noted that hit rating caps will vary, and aren’t usually looked for when people recruit for raids.

Also, to what you said about testing DPS on a heroic boss. What my guild does (on Naxx 10 and 25 man) is start with the Construct Quarter, which the first boss is Patchwerk. By far the hardest of the first bosses in each quarter. Now if we aren’t able to down him, it’s obvious we won’t be able to down several of the bosses (Such as 4Horsemen, KT, Saph) and we will either disband and try the next day with new people (since we don’t down a boss we don’t get saved) or we will replace the lowest DPSers and we’re able to start again.
Once again summing up the wall of text: We try to down Patchwerk first, and if we can’t then we don’t get saved and are able to try again without getting saved to a fail raid.

Thanks for posting theThanks for posting the comment Jiyambi, I enojyed reading it.

About Gear, not any bad idea about the tests of heroic bosses! never thought it could be done that way. Will add it. I will add some more facts about the stats needed.
I must say that I disagree a little on your hit. First time i was in naxx I played with some other DeathKnights. They were definitely all full epic. It could ofcause be because they were slacking, fail spec etc. But I dealed 2.5k dps as dual wield with only 90 hit rating. Top 1 on damage meter. I will add it anyway, its a must for all classes indeed.

I have tried 10 man naxx with 2 healers, it worked fine, but they were also alot over the *required* stats. I’ve never tested it, but my guess is that it will be a very hard for the healers if they only just meet the needed stats, so 3 is prefered for 10 man, if it is a first time run.
I like to say at the Gluth boss we tried have a shaman kiting them around with Earthbind Totem and thunderstorm and it worked well :D. It can probably work with a Mage or a Shaman what i said in the raid makeup, will maybe add hunter ;).

About addons, I must be honest that I dont really know HealBot, but I know a pala healer that use it.
If he Right Click = Holy Light
If he Left Click = Flash of Light
= to close to be bot. (thats just what i mean) Its tottaly prefered to do it manually, as you automatic will focus alot more and have more fun. Therefore I dont added it.
I think I will add a link to a recently guide on wowpro with UI interface, there is alot of useful addons, and I will add the BigWings and try it out in raid one of the following days.

That’s some impressiveThat’s some impressive feedback Ji 😛

A few commentsHello! Before I go off on things that should be fixed/improved, I’ll first say that this is an excellent idea for a guide and a good start. That said….

[list=1]
[b][*]Formatting.[/b] I would love to see a table of contents and a bit more consistency with your titles. There are also some errors in your code somewhere, I see some BBCode showing through. Everything is lined up on the left and it makes it a little hard to read, I recommend playing around using [ list ] tags to indent blocks of text. Also there are a few spelling/grammar errors, run it through a spellchecker.
[b][*]Gear.[/b]
[list][*]You list 20%-25% crit for spellcasters, both DPS and healer. This really depends on class. My druid only has crit on her gear at all because it’s what happened to be on there – she would much prefer haste, or just spellpower/mp5. On the other hand, a pally healer needs a buttload of crit. So I think it’s misleading to give a flat number with no discussion. Because a healer druid may see that and pass up other vital stats in order to get “enough” crit (this is just an example).
[*]For DPS, I think it’s probably most useful to just have them test their DPS on a heroic boss. They need to be able to put out *at least* 1500 DPS, or you are not going to be able to down Loatheb. Trust me, I know from experience. This sort of a requirement bypasses all the questions about attack power/hit/crit/whatever which is different for every class.
[*]Hit. This *absolutely* needs to be mentioned, too many PvP junkies try coming to raids with zero hit rating. Hit rating is pretty much needed for ALL DPS classes, at least to some extent. Duel wield classes need this the most. Some classes need to be capped, some don’t. A little info about this would be really good to have, since I know a lot of people don’t even know what the hit cap is for their class (I see questions in gchat all the time about this).[/list]
[b][*]Raid Composition.[/b]
[list][*]3 healers? Nice, but *definitely* not required. Between 2 and 3 is fine, and I think most groups actually do 2. I’ve done both and liked both, it doesn’t really matter.
[*]Note group make-up for Gluth. This puppy needs some crowd control, so a mage or hunter is pretty much required. It’s also nice to have another plate class that can tank in the back while the two normal tanks are on the boss.
[*]One person to dispel the enrage on Gluth is also needed (read: hunter or rogue)
[*]You also need at least one person with de-curse ability, such as a mage or druid.[/list]
[b][*]Addons.[/b]
[list][*]Grid is definitely NOT the only healing mod! There is also Healbot, which is more common from what I understand, and also Clique.
[*]DBM is not the only raid warning mod, a lot of folks (myself included) use Bigwigs. They are really about the same from what I understand, I was just in a guild in the past that required Bigwigs which is why I use it instead.
[*]Omen is vital for DPS and Tanks, but healers don’t need it at all (what are we gonna do, stop healing? 😉 )[/list]
[b][*]How-To Videos.[/b] The ones you linked work, but I really *highly* recommend watching the Tankspot videos instead. They are *very* high quality and have a guy talking over them to explain as opposed to making you read it while you are trying to watch the fight. Really, they kick total butt, I would definitely recommend linking them instead. You can find them [url=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1B9E10B8B71AE50B]here[/url].[/list]

I know this is a lot of stuff, but this is a subject I know a LOT about 😉 Let me know if you need any help with this guide, I’d be glad to help out!